Re: The Third Jewish Temple

Paul,

More thoughts on your reply:

Mat 11:14 And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.

Mat 17:10 And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?

Mat 17:11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.

Mat 17:12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.

Mat 17:13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

Mar 9:12 And he answered and told them, Elias verily cometh first, and restoreth all things; and how it is written of the Son of man, that he must suffer many things, and be set at nought.

Mar 9:13 But I say unto you, That Elias is indeed come, and they have done unto him whatsoever they listed, as it is written of him.

-- Paul <pdial@earthlink.net> wrote:
OK, I can follow Messiah Ben Joseph and Messiah Ben David - these together complete the nature of Mashiach that is described in the OT.

So that being established, the prophecy in Mal 4:5 has yet to be fulfilled...

TRUE.

 

Even when John the Baptist was asked if he was Elijah, he said "no" (John 1:21).  (Plus, if Elijah were to return in the person of John the Baptist, then don't we get into some reincarnation-type weirdness?).  But I'm thinking that one could view John the Baptist as a foreshadow of Elijah at the Second Coming... John the Baptist after all was the one "to prepare the way".... sound reasonable?

 

I BELIEVE THIS IS RIGHT.    JB WAS A FORESHADOW, NOT THE LITERAL ELIJAH. ELIJAH CANNOT BE REINCARNATED, REMEMBER HE DID NOT DIE. IRREGARDLESS, HE WILL APPEAR RESURRECTED ANYWAY, AS WE ALL WILL AT HIS COMING.

Underline, caps format only for emphasis, you see.

Hope you have a good day.

Danny

"Great peace have they which love thy law
and nothing shall offend them." Psalms 119:165

-- Paul <pdial@earthlink.net> wrote:
OK, I can follow Messiah Ben Joseph and Messiah Ben David - these together complete the nature of Mashiach that is described in the OT.

So that being established, the prophecy in Mal 4:5 has yet to be fulfilled...

I guess this (Mal 4:5) is just one of the prophecies that Jews use when dismissing Jesus as Messiah.  Because first century Jews were looking for Elijah (as they are now) to herald in the Messianic Age.  And, since Elijah did not return in the first century, Jesus could not have been the Messiah to the Jews.  

John the Baptist
Even when John the Baptist was asked if he was Elijah, he said "no" (John 1:21).  (Plus, if Elijah were to return in the person of John the Baptist, then don't we get into some reincarnation-type weirdness?).  But I'm thinking that one could view John the Baptist as a foreshadow of Elijah at the Second Coming... John the Baptist after all was the one "to prepare the way".... sound reasonable?

Thanks!
-Paul


-----Original Message-----
>From: From Danny <danielsaenzgonzalez@netzero.com>
>Sent: Aug 13, 2008 1:26 PM
>To: pdial@earthlink.net
>Subject: Re: The Third Jewish Temple
>
>Paul;
>First of all, what a delight to hear from you. I ask Micah about you and he says your are busy -- which I can certainly understand. You will be like this atleast till the kids reach 18. Best wishes. I am well and wish you the same.
>
>Second, the rabbi is correct.Elijah will come before "the day of the L-RD". This IS the Messianic Age, or the "Second Coming" in christian terms. See Passage Below from Malachi.*
>
>Jesus said that JdB was Elijah. John DID announce the coming  of the Lord (i.e. Jesus, hte Messiah). Remember, we learn from prophecy that there are multiple "fulfillments". But these "fullfilments" are signs, not the actual event.The "actual" event occurs only once. BTW, Jesus was the Messiah ... you can only know this by the Holy Spirit, who does not reveal THAT to everyone.
>
>Jesus came, as announced by the Prophets. He WAS Messiah Ben Joseph, (son of Joseph). Later He comes as Messiah Ben David  --  the conqueror, fullfilling the Messianic Age. Unbelievers teach Two Messiahs, not one. BUT, He is one in the same.
>
>So, Elijah (the real one) does come. And his coming is anticipated (the empty chair).
>*
>Mal 4:1 (3:19) For, behold, the day cometh, it burneth as a furnace; and all the proud, and all that work wickedness, shall be stubble; and the day that cometh shall set them ablaze, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. [I.E. THIS IS THE END OF THE WORLD, JUDGMENT DAY]
>Mal 4:2 (3:20) But unto you that fear My name shall the sun of righteousness arise with healing in its wings; and ye shall go forth, and gambol as calves of the stall.
>Mal 4:3 (3:21) And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I do make, saith the LORD of hosts.
>Mal 4:4 (3:22) Remember ye the law of Moses My servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, even statutes and ordinances.
>Mal 4:5 (3:23) Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and terrible day of the LORD. [N.B. TO THE UNBELIEVER, HE HAS NEVER SEEN MESSIAH [[YESHUA BEN JOSEPH]] BEFORE]
>Mal 4:6 (3:24) And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers; lest I come and smite the land with utter destruction.
>
>Let me know if this helps, Paul.
>
>Yours,
>Danny
>"Great peace have they which love thy law
>and nothing shall offend them." Psalms 119:165
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>-- Paul <pdial@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Hi Danny,
>
>I hope all is well!
>
>Hey I recently attended a Jewish friend's son's Brit milah, and  before the rabbi performed the cutting, he gave some background about the ceremony.  One thing I found interesting was that an empty chair is made available for the prophet Elijah - as there is a prayer that is recited that invites Elijah to the ceremony (Elijah didn't die).  According to Jewish interpretation of Malachi 4:5, Elijah will return right before the Messianic Age (or the Messiah, I guess it depends on one's view.)
>So I've been struggling with this over the last week or so..... are there other legitimate interpretations of Mal 4:5? I know that some say that John the Baptist fulfilled this prophecy - but I have difficulty with that.... what are your thoughts?
>
>-Paul
>
>
>
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